Harold Camping has announced in his "Open Forum" that the REAL date is October 21, 2011 - which is the "end date" he originally claimed (it's not a "new date" as some are saying - this time around he's been saying October 21st is the "end of the world" date - May 21st was the alleged "Judgment Day"). Do I believe him any more now than I did before? No, not in the least - but let's at least fairly report on him and his false prophecies.
Today Camping claims four crucial dates:
- May 21, 1988 - God brought down His judgment on all His churches. God left Satan in charge of the churches as punishment.
- September 7, 1994 - Camping had also predicted that date as "Judgment Day" in his book 1994?, but in that book he also stated that the more likely date of the Judgment would be 2011. Judgment continued upon the churches. This Judgment "was lifted" on May 7, 1994 - it was still an opportunity to become saved. (Hey, wait a minute! Just prior to this statement of May 7, 1994-May 21, 2011 - he said it was September 7th of 1994 that was the "crucial day." Which is it Mr. Camping? September or May?). This is the "Feast of the Memorial of the Jubilee."
- May 21, 2011 - Judgment came upon the churches. The whole world is under Judgment Day until October 21, 2011...
- October 21, 2011 - The world will be destroyed.
So these are "the dates" Mr. Camping claims are the crucial dates... "no more billboard signs - in fact they're all coming down." "We're not changing our dates at all." He continues, "the Bible clearly teaches that then the world is going to be destroyed, altogether. And it will be real quick, it won't be a five month period of trials... May 21st was a spiritual coming, but October 21st will be a physical coming."
If you would like to hear Harold Camping's broadcast from 5/23/2011, click here (right-click to download). What I've included is Camping's monologue of his explanation of why we didn't perceive something happening on May 21st.
Clearly Camping is changing his story as dates roll past and nothing happens. As we've already stated, NO MAN KNOWS THE HOUR - so when Camping start giving us exact dates - even exact hours of when Judgment Day and/or the "End of the World" will be - KNOW THAT HE'S A FALSE PROPHET! Still there's enough people who will accept him and believe him - and even send him money to keep him broadcasting his falsehoods. Pray for THEIR deliverance from this FALSE PROPHET!
Camping said, unequivocally, that May 21 is the date. He did not leave any wiggle room. When asked if contributors would get a refund he said,
ReplyDelete"Excuse me! Excuse me! Excuse me! May 22 will be judgment, the second day of judgment day. Well, uh, uh, (chuckle), we don't know how, what's going to happen to family radio on that first day or to any, to the banks or anybody else. We have no idea at all, but it's going to be horrible. It's going to be a horror story that we absolutely cannot conceive of. Millions of people will die on that day and every day thereafter. and uh. it's it's This kind of conversation of what will we do the next day, that doesn't make.. it's nonsense. It's utter nonsense. Because IT IS GOING TO HAPPEN. This is what the Bible teaches. We don't we don't. THis is not something where ya ya, there's a tiny tiny tiny tiny chance it might happen. IT IS going to happen."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9acwNHKvoo
October 21? Oh Lordy, the suspense is going to kill me before the raptre! LOL!
ReplyDeleteNeed more be said: Sola Scriptura.
ReplyDeleteExactly kkollwitz! I said it somewhere else too - Camping's "facts" are all based upon Scripture - so what makes HIS version of sola scriptura flawed and the version of someone else not flawed? Simple, sola scriptura ITSELF is flawed.
ReplyDeleteScott<<<
I also find it interesting that many of the Protestant blogs which condemn Harold Camping have no firmer a foundation than Camping has, or had. Again - why is THEIR form of sola scriptura superior to Camping's form?
ReplyDeleteScott<<<
"...why is THEIR form of sola scriptura superior to Camping's form?"
ReplyDeleteIt wasn't- until May 22.
Actually, Camping claims the dates are all correct - AND - he claims that we are IN the "Judgment" period now AND that the world will still end on October 21st... so if we go with Camping's changing stories, his version of sola scriptura is still valid, just changing a bit to keep up with facts.
ReplyDeleteMr. Windsor,
ReplyDeleteCamping's predictions are based on numerology and arbitrary verse jangling. To assert that he relied only on Scripture and not his own perverse imagination is just really unimpressive, and especially so coming from you.
Camping is probably the most perfect example of "solo scriptura" that I can think of. I know Bryan Cross at CtC has written arguing that "solo" has no principled difference from "sola", but this case is exactly where that principled difference is most obvious. Camping was kicked out of Protestant churches for teaching something that you yourself have claimed is contrary to Scripture. He was censured, removed from teaching authority, kicked out, and his teachings were condemned officially by every single Protestant denomination I have heard of. He was reminded constantly, incessantly, by believers calling in to his program that "no man knows the day or the hour" and he refused to listen to any sort of wisdom or advice at all, instead placing himself in an echo chamber and insisting that all dissenting opinions were from the enemy.
Even granting that all of the information that he uses comes from the Bible, no one has ever denied that Scripture can be abused and misused to all sorts of heresy. Heck, the Bible itself states that people twist the Scriptures to their own destruction. Saying that it can be misused is different from saying that it's the only infallible source of truth.
Further, were there not date setters before the Reformation? Did people not think the year 1000 AD was going to be the end of the world? Where was Scripture + Tradition + Magisterium to save the day then? Don't believers in the Medjugorje prophecies believe that the end of the world is coming sometime with the next pope? Where is Scripture+Tradition+Magisterium here?
Fact is, the enemy has always sown this sort of false belief. If people want to be carried along by every wind and wave of error, they will be, regardless of the epistemological structures set up around them. If you're really going to argue that there is no more reason to trust historical grammatical exegesis than numerology, then... well... I dunno what else to say then.
In Christ,
JL
John,
ReplyDeleteI appreciate the comments. Keep in mind, much of what is said about Camping is tongue in cheek - he's a farce! He's a farce even as far as most Protestants are concerned. That being said, I stand by what I said about sola scriptura! He bases his INTERPRETATION on Scripture, as does ANY sola scripturist. Yes, Camping goes off-the-deep-end in his numerology and turns a blind eye toward scriptural refutation of his "prophecies," but fundamentally he's a sola scripturist. Those who cling to other variants of sola scriptura may not appreciate him getting the same label as they get, but the point I made is that it IS a valid argument/comparison - fundamentally speaking.
As for "date-setters" prior to the revolt of Protestantism from the One Church - certainly there have been some throughout the history of Christendom - but the Church has never proclaimed a date and especially not an hour when Jesus Christ will return - and she won't! The Church teaches us to ALWAYS be ready, as if TODAY is the day that He will return in glory. Don't be caught like the foolish virgins - and definitely don't try to enter the Wedding Feast without proper attire! BE READY!
In JMJ,
Scott<<<
Scott,
ReplyDeleteCertainly Rome has never stated an official date, but they have also allowed others to set official dates in the past and done nothing to correct them, much like they have yet to do anything (as of last I checked) about the Medjugorje apparitions.
Numerology is not in scripture. Harold Camping believes in sola scriptura in that sense that he already decided he's going to find the date of the second coming in the Bible and hence twists every verse as much as he can to support his fore-settled conclusion that the Bible contains hidden messages of when Christ is coming back.
He's sola scriptura in that he twists the Bible and not St. Augustine or the works of Plato to scratch his itching ears, I suppose.
Still, there's nothing about acknowledging scripture as the only infallible guide to doctrine that in anyway implies using your Bible decoder ring to calculate the day and the hour. His error is a willful, deliberate deviation into heresy which he surely would have made just the same if the Pope were wagging his finger in chorus with the rest of us.
In Christ,
JL
John said: Certainly Rome has never stated an official date, but they have also allowed others to set official dates in the past and done nothing to correct them, much like they have yet to do anything (as of last I checked) about the Medjugorje apparitions.
ReplyDeleteJohn, it's not so much as "allowing others" as in giving permission, but not being over-bearing - as many already complain that the Church is (we can't win). As for Medjugorje, it is still an open book - but the Church has not endorsed it nor recommends pilgrimages to it. If it is not endorsed - don't go. Some who seek any sort of miraculousness will chase after every alleged apparition - most Catholics are not numbered among those. If you want to look at radical fringe - Protestantism has many such examples - Camping among them.
Numerology is not in scripture.
Um, there you are wrong! Scripture is full of numerology! The prophecies of Daniel 9 relates to "weeks" - but they are weeks of years, not weeks of days. The "number" of "the Beast" or "Antichrist" is "666." Examples of 12 and 7 are seen as holy numbers.
Harold Camping believes in sola scriptura in that sense that he already decided he's going to find the date of the second coming in the Bible and hence twists every verse as much as he can to support his fore-settled conclusion that the Bible contains hidden messages of when Christ is coming back.
Thank you for admitting he believes in sola scriptura - I am first to admit that there are many variations of sola scriptura. Aside from the fact that Camping has come up wrong so many times, what makes his variation a less valid approach? That may make him a false prophet - but his approach is sola scriptura.
He's sola scriptura in that he twists the Bible and not St. Augustine or the works of Plato to scratch his itching ears, I suppose.
ANY variant of sola scriptura is a twist of Scripture! Sola scriptura itself is not found in Scripture so one has to "twist the Bible" to find even the basic tenet of sola scriptura.
Still, there's nothing about acknowledging scripture as the only infallible guide to doctrine that in anyway implies using your Bible decoder ring to calculate the day and the hour. His error is a willful, deliberate deviation into heresy which he surely would have made just the same if the Pope were wagging his finger in chorus with the rest of us.
I am not denying Camping's heresy - all I did was ask how his variant of sola scriptura is less valid than others. If you could stop at "he's been proven wrong so many times..." then we can agree - but you persist in your defenses to a point that elevates Camping and/or diminishes your own view. Then again, from a scriptural view there's NO VIEW which is supported by Scripture.