Showing posts with label Our Father. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Our Father. Show all posts

Did Pope Francis Change the Our Father?

One of my sons asked me this question and I said I would get back to him on it. I remember hearing about this, vaguely, in the past. This is what I found...

So, regarding what Pope Francis said about the Lord's Prayer (the Our Father)... that was back in 2019, and he proposed the change, it never really happened.

Per Fox News:

The Pope (proposed to) change the phrase "lead us not into temptation" to "do not let us fall into temptation," as mentioned in the gospel of Matthew 6:13, because the original translation implies that God induces temptation. The change, officials said, is closer to the original intent of the prayer.

"I am the one who falls; it’s not Him pushing me into temptation to then see how I have fallen," Francis explained to Italian broadcasters about the phrase change. "A father doesn't do that, a father helps you to get up immediately. It's Satan who leads us into temptation, that's his department."

Published June 5, 2019 (the statement was actually made in May sometime).

I'm not overly concerned with the proposed change if were ever to be put in place. The Greek, written out literally, is not what we're used to seeing. 

ἀφίεμεν τοῖς ὀφειλέταις ἡμῶν καί μή εἰσενέγκης ἡμᾶς εἰς πειρασμόν, ἀλλά ῥῦσαι ἡμᾶς ἀπό τοπoνηρο.

Here's that translated by Translate.com:

 Thou shalt forsake us and thou shalt not be tempted by us, 

[that's the "Lead us not into temptation" part]

but thou art us out of wretchedness. 

[that's the ""but deliver us from evil" part]

Google Translate translates it this way:

"lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil." (same as we're used to)

 Same copy/paste in a different translator. Funny how the first one (Translate.com) translated it into "King James English" with the "thou shalt..." and "thou art us..." Why use old English?

 The "DeepL" translation site goes with:

"and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil."

 translate.yandex.com, using the exact same Greek copy/paste:

"let us not be tempted by temptation, but let us be tempted by temptation."

 Bing translation is the same as Translate.com.

 Anyway, it has not changed since he said that nearly 4 years ago, that I am aware of. Could it be changed? Sure! Jesus didn't speak English and clearly, there are variances in the translation just based on the few I looked into. The way you're used to hearing it has been used for close to 500 years, so any change "to Jesus' words" (again, He didn't speak English!) will be met with a lot of resistance.

I hope this helps!

 

Lead Us Not Into Tempation


Pope Francis Asking For A Change to the Our Father?

Pope Francis has stated that the words we say, "...lead us not into temptation," is a poor translation. He favors what the French, Spanish and Italians have already begun changing to, "Do not let us fall into temptation" (Spanish), "Do not abandon us to temptation" (Italian), "Do not let us enter into temptation" (French).

The key word here in the Greek is "eisenènkes" - which literally translates to "do not take us inside." So, while what Pope Francis is proposing may be theologically desirable - it would not be quite accurate to say "lead us not into temptation" is a poor translation - literally speaking, "lead us not into temptation" is the more literal translation. (Kington, 2017).



Found on http://www.lords-prayer-words.com, (n.d.) we find these translations:

The Lord's Prayer 
(Greek)


ΠΑΤΕΡ ΗΜΩΝ Ο ΕΝ ΤΟΙΣ ΟΥΡΑΝΟΙΣ

ΑΓΙΑΣΘΗΤΩ ΤΟ ΟΝΟΜΑ ΣΟΥ 

ΕΛΘΕΤΩ Η ΒΑΣΙΛΕΙΑ ΣΟΥ

ΓΕΝΗΘΗΤΩ ΤΟ ΘΕΛΗΜΑ ΣΟΥ,

ΩΣ ΕΝ ΟΥΡΑΝΩ ΚΑΙ ΕΠΙ ΤΗΣ ΓΗΣ

ΤΟΝ ΑΡΤΟΝ ΗΜΩΝ ΤΟΝ ΕΠΙΟΥΣΙΟΝ

ΔΟΣ ΗΜΙΝ ΣΗΜΕΡΟΝ

ΚΑΙ ΑΦΕΣ ΗΜΙΝ ΤΑ ΟΦΕΙΛΗΜΑΤΑ ΗΜΩΝ,

ΩΣ ΚΑΙ ΗΜΕΙΣ ΑΦΙΕΜΕΝ ΤΟΙΣ ΟΦΕΙΛΕΤΑΙΣ ΗΜΩΝ
ΚΑΙ ΜΗ ΕΙΣΕΝΕΓΚΗΣ ΗΜΑΣ ΕΙΣ ΠΕΙΡΑΣΜΟΝ,
ΑΛΛΑ ΡΥΣΑΙ ΗΜΑΣ ΑΠΟ ΤΟΥ ΠΟΝΗΡΟΥ.
ΑΜΗΝ.



Transliteration

Pater hêmôn ho en toes ouranoes;
hagiasthêtô to onoma sou; 
elthetô hê basileia sou; 
genêthêtô to thelêma sou,
hôs en ouranô, kae epi tês gês. 
ton arton hêmôn ton epiousion dos hêmin sêmeron; 
kae aphes hêmin ta opheilêmata hêmôn, 
hôs kae hêmeis aphiemen toes opheiletaes hêmôn;
kae mê eisenenkês hêmas eis peirasmon, 
alla rhysae hêmas apo tou ponerou. 
hoti sou estin hê basileia kae hê dynamis kae hê doxa eis tous aeônas; 
amên.

While we can speculate on what an original Aramaic, primary source, may look like - the fact is, we do not have any Aramaic autographs available to us. Eusebius does quote there was such a version in the Early Church, we just have no copies of an original Aramaic version.


From Catholic Answers we find these quotes:


Around 180 Irenaeus of Lyons wrote that
Matthew also issued a written Gospel among the Hebrews in their own dialect, while Peter and Paul were preaching in Rome and laying the foundation of the Church. After their departure, Mark, the disciple and interpreter of Peter, did also hand down to us in writing what had been preached by Peter. Luke also, the companion of Paul, recorded in a book the Gospel preached by him. Afterwards John, the disciple of the Lord, who also had leaned upon his breast, did himself publish a Gospel during his residence at Ephesus in Asia. (Against Heresies 3:1:1)
Fifty years earlier Papias, bishop of Hieropolis in Asia Minor, wrote, 
"Matthew compiled the sayings [of the Lord] in the Aramaic language, and everyone translated them as well as he could" (Explanation of the Sayings of the Lord [cited by Eusebius in History of the Church 3:39]).
Sometime after 244 the Scripture scholar Origen wrote,
"Among the four Gospels, which are the only indisputable ones in the Church of God under heaven, I have learned by tradition that the first was written by Matthew, who was once a publican, but afterwards an apostle of Jesus Christ, and it was prepared for the converts from Judaism and published in the Hebrew language" (Commentaries on Matthew [cited by Eusebius in History of the Church 6:25]).
Eusebius himself declared that
"Matthew had begun by preaching to the Hebrews, and when he made up his mind to go to others too, he committed his own Gospel to writing in his native tongue [Aramaic], so that for those with whom he was no longer present the gap left by his departure was filled by what he wrote" (History of the Church 3:24 [inter 300-325]).
The bottom line here, while the existence of an Aramaic original for the Book of Matthew is quite likely, the oldest extant versions of Matthew we have are in Greek. Speculation on what an Aramaic original might say is purely that - speculation.  According to the Greek, the more literal translation, where St. Jerome translated the Latin "Pater Noster" and the word in Latin is  “inducere,” which means “bring in.” It is from here that we get the English translation we're most familiar with:
Matthew 6:9-13Douay-Rheims Thus therefore shall you pray: Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name.10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.11 Give us this day our (daily) bread.12 And forgive us our debts, as we also forgive our debtors.13 And lead us not into temptation. But deliver us from evil. Amen.  (BibleGateway, n.d.)
The Douay-Rheims was first published in 1582 and the popular King James Version (KJV) came out 29 years later in 1611. The two versions are virtually identical, except the KJV adds "For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever" which was actually a copyist/scribe addition, not found in the Greek (modern and more accurate versions leave this part out).

Taking this all into consideration - one of the reasons stated, "in a TV interview this week, Pope Francis said that the line asking God to “Lead us not into temptation,” or in Italian, “non indurci in tentazione,” should be changed because it has been translated badly" (Kington, 2017). This is not really a good justification for the translation we're all accustomed to is quite literal and accurate.

Another reason Pope Francis gives is the theological meaning. "It is Satan who leads us into temptation - that's his department" (Kington, 2017). I can handle that sort of rationalization, but why? Why would we change the wording which is so widely accepted throughout Christendom (Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant)? 


Can the Pope Unilaterally Change the Mass?

Does the pope have the right/authority to change the wording used in the Mass?  Certainly he does. Wording has been changed many times throughout history, most recently under Pope Benedict XVI where the wording of the Consecration and the Credo were changed (back) to the more literal, accurate and traditional translations (The Consecration went back to "for many" instead of "for all" in the Consecration of the Blood of Christ; the Credo went back to "I believe..." instead of "We believe..."). There were other changes too under Pope Benedict XVI. Even the Novus Ordo Missae itself was not a product of the Second Vatican Council, rather it was a product of Pope Paul VI, several years after the council had concluded. There are several debating points here which I will not get into at this time - the point is, the pope does have the authority to make changes to the liturgy. That being said, local bishops still have authority within their respective jurisdictions to determine which form of the Mass has their licit permission to be said. 

My concluding thought here...  

Even though the pope does indeed have this authority, should he invoke it here on the widely accepted form of the Our Father?

And from a fellow apologist, Jimmy Akin, he has a few choice words on this subject too...  that the media has blown this all out of proportion and that Pope Francis is not calling for a change to the Our Father - it was simply a comment he made in a television interview (in Italian, and he has it linked on his site). Jimmy's point is that we don't need to be all worked up about this. It is largely (false) media hype. (Akin, 2017). I will add though, while Pope Francis may not have made a call to change the Our Father, he has stated his approval for such a change and, as it has been pointed out, the Italian, French and Spanish have already implemented the change he approves of.







References:


Akin, Jimmy. (December, 2017). No, Pope Francis is Not
        Changing the Lord's Prayer. Retrieved December 10, 
        2017 from http://jimmyakin.com/2017/12/no-pope-francis-is-not-changing-the-lords-prayer.html 

BibleGateway. (n.d.). Retrieved December 9, 2017, from
         https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2B6%3A9-13&version=DRA

Catholic Answers, (August 4, 2011). Was Matthew's Gospel 
         First Written in Aramaic or Hebrew? Retrieved on 
         December 9, 2017 from                               https://www.catholic.com/qa/was-matthews-gospel-first-written-in-aramaic-or-hebrew

Kington, Tom. Pope Francis suggests rewording the Lord's
         Prayer. The problem? 'Lead us not into temptation'. 
         LA Times, December 8, 2017. Retrieved on December 
         9, 2017 from http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-vatican-our-father-20171208-story.html

lords-prayer-words.com, n.d.. The Lord's Prayer. Retrieved 
         on December 9, 2017 from http://www.lords-prayer-words.com/lord_greek_transliteration_text.html 





Holding Hands



Today I would like to talk about our posture and gestures during the celebration of the Mass.   The General Instruction of the Roman Missal directs us on what we should be doing during the different parts of the Mass.  This document is important for the simple fact that we can truly worship in unison throughout the entire world.

What is the GIRM?

The GIRM is an acronym for the General Instruction of the Roman Missal. It is the handbook for how to celebrate the Mass. While it’s not the only resource, most questions about the Mass can be answered by the GIRM.

It covers such things like the structure of the Mass, its elements and parts; postures, processions and gestures; silence and singing; liturgical furnishings; the role of the deacon, liturgical ministers, and laity, and much more.

The GIRM provides instruction for how to celebrate the Mass throughout the world. That’s why you can walk into Mass anywhere in the world and recognize certain elements . . . no matter the language, no matter the cultural norms.

Why is the GIRM important?

This sums it up: “Liturgy is a prayer like no other. It is the source and summit of our life as Catholic Christians. So let our words and actions, our prayers and music, our worship spaces and liturgical furnishings and art, be worthy of the profound mystery we celebrate.”(http://www.archdiocesesantafe.org/Offices/Worship/GIRM/English/GIRM.pdf)

Now, what does the manual directs us to do when we pray the Our Father during Mass?  Well, we are to stand, but nowhere is it explained that we are to hold hands.  Hence, the proper posture that we ought to hold is to stand and pray.  Since there is no direct explanation that we are not to hold hands, it is generally accepted to allow individual church traditions to be continued in regards to holding hands while we pray the ‘Our Father’.  It is not condemned but neither is it condoned.

While holding hands is allowed please don’t go doing acrobatics just so you can hold the hand of the gentleman in the other pew or to go on tapping the lady’s shoulder that’s standing next to you when she doesn’t extend her hand to hold yours.

Personally, I would like us to refrain from doing extraneous gestures that are not specifically spelled out for us to do in our official Manual on how to properly celebrate Mass.

God Bless
Nathan

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